How much of NumPy and SciPy is in C?

Question

Are parts of NumPy and/or SciPy programmed in C/C++?

And how does the overhead of calling C from Python compare to the overhead of calling C from Java and/or C#?

I'm just wondering if Python is a better option than Java or C# for scientific apps.

If I look at the shootouts, Python loses by a huge margin. But I guess this is because they don't use 3rd-party libraries in those benchmarks.

Answer 1

1. I would question any benchmark which doesn't show the source for each implementation (or did I miss something)? It's entirely possible that either or both of those solutions are coded badly which would result in an unfair appraisal of either or both language's performance. [Edit] Oops, now I see the source. As others have pointed out though, it's not using the NumPy/SciPy libraries so those benchmarks are not going to help you make a decision.
2. I believe the vast majority of NumPy and SciPy is written in C and wrapped in Python for ease of use.
3. It probably depends what you're doing in any of those languages as to how much overhead there is for a particular application.

I've used Python for data processing and analysis for a couple of years now so I would say it's certainly fit for purpose.

What are you trying to achieve at the end of the day? If you want a fast way to develop readable code, Python is an excellent option and certainly fast enough for a first stab at whatever it is you're trying to solve.

Why not have a bash at each for a small subset of your problem and benchmark the results in terms of development time and run time? Then you can make an objective decision based on some relevant data ...or at least that's what I'd do :-)

Answer 2

A lot of it is written in C or fortran. You can re-write the hot loops in C (or use one of the gazillion ways to speed python up, boost/weave is my favorite), but does it really matter?

Your scientific app will be run once. The rest is just debugging and development, and those can be much quicker on Python.

Answer 3

Most of NumPy is in C, but a large portion of the C code is "boilerplate" to handle all the dirty details of the Python/C interface. I think the ratio C vs. Python is around 50/50 ATM for NumPy.

I am not too familiar with vm-based low-level details, but I believe the interface cost would be higher because of the restrictions put on the jvm and the .clr. One of the reason why numpy is often faster than similar environments is the memory representation and how arrays are shared/passed between functions. Whereas most environments (Matlab and R as well I believe) use Copy-On-Write to pass arrays between functions, NumPy use references. But doing so in e.g. the JVM would be hard (because of restrictions on how to use pointer, etc...). It is doable (an early port of NumPy for Jython exists), but I don't know how they solve this issue. Maybe C++/Cli would make this easier, but I have zero experience with that environment.

Answer 4

There is a better comparison here (not a benchmark but shows ways of speeding up Python). NumPy is mostly written in C. The main advantage of Python is that there are a number of ways of very easily extending your code with C (ctypes, swig,f2py) / C++ (boost.python, weave.inline, weave.blitz) / Fortran (f2py) - or even just by adding type annotations to Python so it can be processed to C (cython). I don't think there are many things comparably easy for C# or Java - at least that so seemlessly handle passing numerical arrays of different types (although I guess proponents would argue since they don't have the performance penalty of Python there is less need to).

Answer 5

It always depends on your own capability to handle the langue, so the language is able to generate fast code. Out of my experience, numpy is several times slower then good .NET implementations. And I expect JAVA to be similar fast. Their optimizing JIT compilers have improved significantly over the years and produce very efficient instructions.

numpy on the other hand comes with a syntax wich is easier to use for those, which are attuned to scripting languages. But if it comes to application development, those advantages often turn to obstacles and you will yearn for typesafety and enterprise IDEs. Also, the syntactic gap is already closing with C#. A growing number of scientific libraries exist for Java and .NET.Personally I tend towards C#, bacause it provides better syntax for multidimensional arrays and somehow feels more 'modern'. But of course, this is only my personal experience.